“Technology was on the other side of the aisle from politics”: Jon Swartz

EXP: You’ve been covering this source for almost 36 years. What was technological journalism like in the late eighties?

Very few people did it, it was little known and highly specialized. I used to write about local networks, ethernet… very boring things (laughs).

I started writing for a publication called MacWEEK, which was about technology but also about lifestyle. It had a similar pattern to The Rolling Stones because the people who wrote in MacWeek also wrote in that magazine because they were on the same street, Brannan. They started writing more about technology (…) It was fun and countercultural. There were a lot of hippies and we met people in the music industry. But it was not going to last long because it was hyper specialized. I was there for a couple of years, until the San Francisco Chronicle hired me. I didn’t want to write about technology because many didn’t understand what I was writing about and I wanted them to understand me.

MacWEEK was a weekly newspaper, also known as Mack The Knife, that talked about Apple Macintosh and trade. It was founded in 1987 and ceased in 1999. On the other hand, the offices of The Rolling Stones magazine were in 746 Brannan Street, San Francisco, Californiaand they were the last of the magazine to close, in 2009.

EXP: And what was the industry like back then?

Jack Dorsey used to walk to work. I saw it once. You could say hello to people. You met her all the time. You knew them when they weren’t famous and from that you built relationships. I remember Marc Benioff a lot. I met him when he was working at Oracle and it was one of the first stories I wrote for MacWEEK. He was one of the first people I interviewed and he told me later that he remembered me for that.

Before it was a lot of curiosity and see what we could do. It was a genuine interest in seeing how to help humanity. Now, honestly, I think it’s just about operations, efficiency, profitability, money. What happens is that the technology industry has become so big, so serious and powerful that you cannot control it.

EXP: I am going to ask you the question that many young people ask ourselves now. Do you think technology has made us better as a society?

I think technology has divided people (…). There are people who travel in first class, others in business, and the rest in the back; that’s what the techno industry has become.

Seven or eight years ago there was an event called Collison, in Las Vegas. And they separated people according to their status. I found out about that later because a friend wanted to invite me to a party. And we realized that we were at the same event but in completely different places, separated by status.

(…) Of course it has made our lives more comfortable. Who doesn’t like sitting at home and having food delivered to their doorstep? But I also think the impact is different. People who are over 30 post pure nonsense on social networks. But the younger ones don’t. They are filled with anxiety and depression.

But I think that’s life. The tech industry simply adapted to life. At first I think that he did have a more egalitarian approach, but not anymore.

EXP: And when did this division start to be so noticeable?

I think when people like Bill Gates became billionaires and the rise of people like Jeff Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg (…) they became cynical very quickly.

EXP: I’m covering the United States and, listening to companies and executives, I get the impression that the people who create technology for the world don’t see the rest of the world. What do you think about this?

They don’t see the world, they live in bubbles. They only give access in highly controlled environments, they have bodyguards, helicopters that take them to their offices (…)

Carly Fiorina was the CEO of HP but the Marie Antoinette of the tech world. She had her own stylist, a helicopter took her to work, her employees complained a lot about her (…) Mark Cuban had offices with televisions throughout the area, a bar, he bathed right there. I remember going there and thinking that these luxuries are like nothing I’ve seen before. It was ridiculous.

EXP: So with all this power, what’s the difference between a CEO of a tech company and a politician?

Before, technology was on the other side of the aisle from politics. Now? I think none. I think that the CEO’s of technology companies are like presidents of small countries. They have as much power as world leaders, they are your friends. Tim Cook meets with the leaders of China and India. Also Zuckerberg and Nadella. They are equal. They have even become more political.

Steve Jobs was not a politician. He never talked about his political views and that was something he admired. Now, with Elon Musk, you have an extreme example of a personality having an opinion on everything, even apologizing for telling George Soros that he was a Nazi.

EXP: But there must be salvageable managers. Who do you think has done well?

I think Satya Nadella has done very well. He cares about his workers and is someone who sees the big picture, he made the company something remarkable. Sundar Pichai also tries it. Of course there are good guys. I think many of the best leaders and CEO’s in the industry are from India.

(…) I also wish there were more female CEO’s. I really liked Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo. She has a great personality. Meg Whitman also did an admirable job at eBay. And I think the new CEO of Twitter, Linda Yaccarino, is quite qualified for the job.

EXP: With all the changes in the industry that you have experienced, how do you see the future of the industry?

I asked Steve Wozniack the same thing, who by the way, I consider to be a great person. He has a passion for knowledge and teaching that I greatly admire. Oh well. He thinks that in the future, due to climate change, we will have completely abandoned cities, deserts, and we will live there in a kind of bubble. And I think he’s right (laughs).

(…) I think the tech industry needs someone to solve problems like creating the perfect battery, improving immigration or the problem of homelessness. You need a great thinker. Know? Musk is a bit like that, a great thinker, but he has a horrible personality.