Aznar and Redondo Terreros yearn for the 90s: "Now we can go change our sex"

The debate was moderated by the deputy director of El Mundo Jorge Bustos, who lamented that social democracy is “doomed to extinction” and no longer has leaders like the German Willy Brandt or the Swedish Olof Palme. The economic programs of one and the other were to the right of what Podemos proposes today, but the journalist was presumably referring to his political stature. It turns out, according to Redondo Terreros, that the PSOE of the 90s, that of the last stage of Felipe González and his ephemeral successors until the first phase of Zapatero, was “reformist, more Central European than Mediterranean, national, autonomous and with a majority vocation”. Not now. What happened? According to Aznar, globalization, the technological revolution and the pandemic have given rise to “very radical forces”. The international financial crisis of 2008 and its ramifications were not the subject of debate.

In the year 2000 the pact against terrorism was signed, when Aznar governed with an absolute majority and Zapatero was branded as “Bambi” in the press stands. A scenario like that would be desirable to address “everything that needs to be done to straighten the country in the field of economy,” in the words of Redondo Terreros. According to Aznar, reforms to limit the deficit and the debt, shore up a “social security that is impossible to maintain” and undertake an “energy transition without crazy things”.

Redondo Terreros was about to be expelled from the PSOE for defending Isabel Díaz Ayuso in 2021. He apologized and the file that was opened for him was archived. Today he openly differs from the party line, for example, regarding the reform of the crimes of sedition and embezzlement, something “extremely painful”, which “breaks basic principles of Law since the Transition” and which has contributed to “Catalonia being able to be better” but that Catalonia “surely is worse”.

The old politicians agreed that the Transition was exemplary and Aznar deemed it appropriate to quote Hannah Arendt regarding the danger of losing the ability to discern between what is true and what is false. He listened to him in the audience, among other PP officials, Ángel Acebes, who together with the former president continues to defend today that the authorship of the Atocha attacks on March 11, 2004 is not entirely clear. They were in the audience, attentive, other popular of the current executive, such as Esteban González Pons and Elías Bendondo, general coordinator.

Jokes with the trans law and warnings against the separatist danger

Aznar, comfortable, made very successful jokes among the public, for example, one on account of the trans law: “We three can go now to change our sex.” After general laughter, he spoke defiantly about Catalan nationalism, which he considers historically doomed to fail when it aspires to independence, “because of its incompetence.” Redondo Terreros did not go that far, since both he and Aznar had agreed minutes before, on account of the future of Spain, that historical conditions are not insurmountable.

Is the Basque Country better today than 15 years ago, even? The answer is not definitive, according to Aznar, because, although ETA no longer exists, “Bildu is an active partner of the Government” and before that we must be “careful”. Aznar made this reflection after a debate in which he reiterated with the seriousness of a statesman generally accepted issues such as that “discrepancy is one thing and discord another” or that “freedom is what saves democracies”. Redondo Terreros nodded. Both consider themselves friends, Aznar had words of remembrance for the recently deceased Nicolás Redondo Sr., historical leader of the UGT. The son understands that you can debate “away from the trench discord.” Aznar considers that, like “Churchill against the Nazis”, one must be firm against the attempt “to take the country to extremes”, in which he, it goes without saying, is not to be found.